Holden doesn’t like the Wicker Bar, where he’s meeting Carl, but he arrives early and has a few drinks. Carl arrives, and Holden thinks about their time in school, when Carl was obsessed with talking about who might be gay (they use the derogatory term “flit” throughout to refer to gay men), and would tell the younger students that they might suddenly become gay. At the time, Holden thought Carl might be projecting and was gay himself.

Holden tries to talk about this old subject, but Carl has no interest in it, saying Holden needs to grow up. Holden keeps trying to steer the conversation toward sex (to Carl’s consternation), but Carl is also disinterested when Holden says he has a problem that he needs to talk about. Holden asks Carl about who he’s dating, and he says he’s seeing a Chinese sculptress who is a good bit older than either of them. Carl is trying to be sophisticated, saying that the appreciates her because of her Eastern philosophy, but Holden keeps bringing the conversation back to sex.

Holden realizes he’s annoying Carl by asking personal questions, so he backs off and talks about himself. Carl tells Holden he needs to go see a psychoanalyst (Carl’s father is one), and Holden asks what Carl’s father would do to his mind.